Well, there goes the neighborhood... The cornerstone of the "new downtown Oshkosh" is now in foreclosure to the same bank that owns the adjacent property (Park Plaza). Hell, if we keep going, BB will own the entire downtown. What do you think that they will do with it? Do you think that they will keep those projects as is? Or will they raze them and start over with projects that are viable for a city of this size.
I vote for the the second choice. There isn't much doubt that these properties weren't going to do well in the first place. There is too much competition and when the market is flooded, something has to give.
Heaven help those that speak against a project when it is proposed. That is considered anti-progress. All I can say now is, we told you so.
With the downtown, we need to think smart. Time to do what is REALISTIC with the downtown and quit throwing good money over bad at it just to watch the loans default. Who is going to pay the TIF now?
Time to rethink that downtown plan. And quit following the "progressives" lead. Time to take a realistic, manageable approach to improving the downtown.
Any ideas?
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17 comments:
You were not even in the picture when the 100 block project came onto the scne. How can you make any "We told you so" claims? How arrogant.
Actually, I was... Just not as vocal then.
Arrogant, I prefer confident. But still right.
What was your plan 2 years ago Kent? Stagnation is also very costly. Do you have a specific plan now two years later? Anyone can say no to all progress and eventually they will get one right. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then!
If you weren't vocal, you don't get to claim "I told you so" rights. Specifically what were you silently involved in back in 2002 and earlier when the discussions were being held?
I have got news for you. I can do and say whatever I want. I don't have any real desire to further pursue any elected office. Certainly not in Oshkosh. Too much division in this city.
I have opposed several of the downtown "projects". City owning of the Convention Center, the bandshell, Five Rivers, Sundial, Floating docks, purchase of Mercury, 100 block, City financing of the riverwalk on Pioneer Island, and various other "investments" made by the city.
Continuing to spend money trying to "preserve" the downtown is NOT productive. Look around, find another community that is geographically equal to Oshkosh and tell me that they have a successful downtown. Go ahead.
So, you ask for a solution? I have one. Will it make a difference? No. Will anyone even care? No. All that will happen is that it will get picked apart and it is not worth the effort anymore.
Bottom line is that the plan MUST be looked at and perhaps adjusted to be realistic rather than continuing on the path of destruction that we are on.
So, no plan to be announced then huh?
Kent. Like you said, the 100 block is just one in a list of stupid things the council has done! I can't wait util the next "progressive" thing goes belly up.
You didn't own property in Oshkosh until July 2002 and the 100 block plans had been discussed at least a year prior to that. Who are you trying to kid, Kent? This is just more of your distortion of the truth to make yourself look like a know-it-all. But alas, the truth shines even in your corner of the world.
Ok genius, you know how to look up tax records. Can you look to see how long my house (actually condo) was on the market in Grand Chute? Do you know how long I have worked in Oshkosh? Do you know when I STARTED looking at houses and the community? Did you know that my initial intention was to build a house here?
I do a lot of research on a community BEFORE I move to it. Anybody with a brain would. I have been involved with Oshkosh since around mid 2000 and the time frame for the 100 block. I wasn’t here for all of it, but I was here for enough of it to question the feasibility of building a large apartment complex in a market saturated with apartments. Yes, I looked at apartments too. I wasn’t able to move directly from one house to the other. I needed to rent for a month in between.
Who in their right mind would submit themselves to downtown parking, elevators, poor maintenance, etc. when there are other apartments, similarly priced, without the hassles?
Is there any wonder why Ganther can’t keep that place full?
My opinions are MY opinions. I think that the 100 block may have looked good on paper but it doesn’t pass the common sense test. There are many projects that don’t. Five Rivers was one of them but if Doig had come up with the right markers, he would be building right now. The same people were pushing for that project too. Should we have done it? I don’t think so.
Okay, master of research/distorter of truth, you research a commuity before you move there. A LOT of research as you say. With all the problems you claim Oshkosh to have you moved here anyway. And despite what you say were your reservations about the 100 block you never once said anything. Spin thigns any way you want -- you can't claim "I told you so" if you never told anyone.
The progressives aren't doing so well it seems.
The 100 block, hotel/convention center are bankrupt. The Leach is getting mixed reviews mostly because of lack of good programing, The Waterfront project is under fire and the developers have not had success in locating quality developments other than an office building.
Did our former Mayor Jon Dell’Antonia (River Mill Resident) help or hurt Oshkosh by his support of all these "progressive" Oshkosh taxpayer funded projects?
The only real success is the Water Park.
I think Paul Esslinger was a primary advocate for the water park.
OK lets take stock...
Former Mayor Jon Dell’Antonia (River Mill Resident)and the Chamber "Progressives"
Paul Esslinger Oshkosh taxpayer advocate.
I'd say Paul is leading this race by quite a margin.
I support Paul, Dennis, Tony and Frank!
you ask for a solution? All that will happen is that it will get picked apart and it is not worth the effort anymore.
Kent if you have a "TRUE" solution
it would stand the test of time and critics.
Progress starts with an idea!
Not all of us are glotting over a failed downtown project.
I would give Mr. Ganther and his partners a pat on the back AT LEAST THEY TRIED! They got off the A_ _ ES and Tried!
A contributing facture to the failures downtown start and end with the city and the lack of maintaintenace of city property.
If the city would have made small investments in the Convention Center. Downtown would be florishing today. Study the decline of the downtown Convention Center and the Park Plaza. They all go hand in hand.
Regenerate the Convention Center and activity and progress will return.
Kent, what project SHOULD we do?
So if the downtown goes tits up it's because the city didn't maintain the convention center???!!!
That's a nice CYA
"If the city would have made small investments in the Convention Center. Downtown would be flourishing today. Study the decline of the downtown Convention Center and the Park Plaza. They all go hand in hand."
The city administration has shown it has very little expertise in the process of development.
The city administration should back away and let the private sector proceed it there is a need.
So far some very expensive mistakes have been made, mistakes we Oshkosh homeowners and taxpayers will have to pay for.
I say it's time for some accountability with our City Administration.
In the private sector jobs would be lost if they produced the poor performance we have in our city planning Department.
Who's job should be held accountable at City Hall?
Kent, what project SHOULD we do?
Jul 15, 2007 2:34:00 PM
How about streets, a new city garage, sidewalks, bridges, parks, but not hotels, convention centers, or office buildings. Tax dollars are to be used for our cities infrastructure. If the privare sector does not think our downtown is worth investing in why does our city staff think they know better?
if the downtown goes tits up it's because the city didn't maintain the convention center???!!!
YES, that was the start of the decay of that neighborhood
or
put another wasy the first rotten apple.
Properly maintained homes or businesses keep neighborhoods thriving.
Why is the city pushes to regenerate the East Side neighborhood?
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